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15 May 2009 @ 11:42 am
Copying and Trademarks  
I know that it's (potentially, with exceptions for fair use and so on) illegal to copy material to which someone else owns a copyright. Is there any law, regulation, or rule about photocopying text that you have written, if in the text you have used a trademarked word or phrase?

(Specific question, a couple of months old, but it just came back to the forefront of my brain: one of my chapter members created a flyer for an event, and was told she couldn't copy it at Kinko's because the flyer included the text "The International Association of Administrative Professionals®".)
hedwig5221hedwig5221 on May 15th, 2009 04:03 pm (UTC)
Huh? When did this happen? Why? Who said? That makes absolutely no sense.

We are told to put the registration mark but can't copy the material? I don't think so.

Edited at 2009-05-15 04:03 pm (UTC)
Janet Miles, CAP-OMjanetmiles on May 15th, 2009 04:13 pm (UTC)
Either Cathy or Trudy, about something to do with either the Sevier County meeting or the IMPACT meeting, I don't remember which; I just remember one of them telling me that the shop wouldn't run the copies and that was the reason they gave.
hedwig5221hedwig5221 on May 15th, 2009 04:19 pm (UTC)
I definitely want to track this down and get answers from HQ...that makes no sense...I think Kinko's blew it!
Janet Miles, CAP-OMjanetmiles on May 15th, 2009 04:58 pm (UTC)
Oh, it says on the HQ page that we're free to use the service marks / trademarks for chapter business as long as the TM or R is appended properly. I'm not worried about HQ at all; I was just puzzled about the Kinko's (or whatever).
hedwig5221hedwig5221 on May 15th, 2009 05:01 pm (UTC)
Then, I guess Kinko's will just lose any and all of our business!
Janet Miles, CAP-OMjanetmiles on May 15th, 2009 05:18 pm (UTC)
Or that particular one needs to retrain its employees -- I've had no problems with either the Kinko's on the strip or the one out in Bearden (which I'm actually more likely to go to because the parking is better!).
Peter Engdornbeast on May 15th, 2009 09:18 pm (UTC)
In my experience, Kinko's is terminally paranoid about copying anything that is trademarked, registered, or copyrighted.
Raoul Dukedrjeff on May 15th, 2009 04:03 pm (UTC)
My friend littlebluedog is a patent attorney and could probably help with this one. Feel free to let him know I sent you. :)
Janet Miles, CAP-OMjanetmiles on May 15th, 2009 04:16 pm (UTC)
Dammit, Jeff, copyrights and trademarks are confusing enough without bringing patents into it! Sheesh! :-)
Raoul Dukedrjeff on May 15th, 2009 04:16 pm (UTC)

He's steeped in all of the above, methinks. Give him a shout!

Fat Fred the Otter and Skippy: iotterfatfred on May 15th, 2009 04:07 pm (UTC)
Did a Kinkos person tell them that?
Proper trademark notice of said TM should be fine. Otherwise, how could someone print notices of upcoming seminars etc?

You are talking about it and giving proper accreditation, not claiming to be it/ use it.

I'm not claiming to know copyright law.
Nannimuejohn on May 15th, 2009 04:10 pm (UTC)
Do you mean copyright (c) or trademark (TM)? They're two entirely different things.

A trademark (TM) is meant to protect the consumer by reserving a name, like Xerox(TM), to refer specifically to one company's product. Xerox(TM) is quite touchy about this, and used to take out ads in writers' magazines reminding authors that Xerox(TM) should not be used as a generic term for photocopying.

A copyright (C) is used to control who can make copies of a given work. Since the title of a work, like "Moby Dick", can't itself be copyrighted, I doubt you could copyright the name of an organization. (Why would you, anyway, since it would prevent any publicity about said organization.)

(R) is used for a trademark officially registered with the US government. That's it. There's no reason that you shouldn't be able to use the phrase "The International Association of Administrative Professionals(R)", unless you were misrepresenting yourself as speaking for that organization. So I think your local Kinko's was blowing smoke out it's monkey's.

These pages may be helpful: What's the difference between a registered trademark and a trademark
Virtual Wall discusses their trademark and service mark
Janet Miles, CAP-OM: wisdomjanetmiles on May 15th, 2009 04:15 pm (UTC)
I mean copyright, and I think the shop meant copyright, and I think the shop employee had confused copyright and trademark, but in case there was something I didn't already know about trademarks, I wanted to ask, since All Knowledge Is Contained In Fandom/Usenet/LiveJournal.
Tim Illingworthtimill on May 15th, 2009 04:13 pm (UTC)
The instructions given to Kinko's staff are overly restrictive.

A friend of mine was prevented from copying some minutes because they had a copyright notice on them. It didn't matter that he was the Secretary of the copyrighting organization...

Speaking more generally, the attributed use of marks is a Good Thing for the mark-holder.
Buddha Buckblaisepascal on May 15th, 2009 08:55 pm (UTC)
That is a stupid policy on the part of Kinko's.

I wonder how a Kinko's manager would react if a customer came in, asked their policy on copying copyrighted works, and then proceeded to pull out a piece of paper and pen and wrote "According to US Copyright law, any work is automatically copyrighted when fixed to a tangible medium (such as handwritten on a piece of paper) for the life of the author plus 75 years.", and asked for 20 copies.
gh4acws on May 15th, 2009 04:15 pm (UTC)
( I am not an expert in American law ) - however I should think that a flyer for an event organized by a local chapter of the IAAP constitutes at least fair use - I suspect actually you are licensed to use the trademark ( with license details regulated by internal rules )

I wonder who told her that she could not copy that flyer ? After all the flyer was presumably furthering the interest of the IAAP.

*German law of course is different & I have no legal degree in that either and certainly not in copyright law.

Barbrahirah on May 15th, 2009 04:31 pm (UTC)
Given that on a couple of occasions Kinko's threw a hissy fit about copying artwork when I didn't have the artist's permission when I was the artist in question, I think they're probably deeply confused.
Janet Miles, CAP-OMjanetmiles on May 15th, 2009 04:59 pm (UTC)
Point taken.
madshutterbug: Stalking_Elusive_Photographmadshutterbug on May 15th, 2009 05:24 pm (UTC)
I once made a self-portrait for use by a professional association I belong to, which includes in their instructions to members that they need to obtain permission to use such if applicable. To be certain there was no question, I wrote and signed (hardcopy) and attached a letter which said: I am madshutterbug who created the portrait of madshutterbug, and I give madshutterbug permission to use this.

They were amused. Then again, they are not Kinko's(TM).
Bladerunnerbldrnrpdx on May 15th, 2009 11:22 pm (UTC)
Did they ask for ID to make sure you were you?
Jim Hetleyjhetley on May 15th, 2009 04:43 pm (UTC)
Somebody needs to point out that there is a difference between trademark and copyright . . .
Janet Miles, CAP-OMjanetmiles on May 15th, 2009 04:59 pm (UTC)
That's pretty much what I thought; I just wondered if maybe there were some new rules about trademarks.
starcat_jewelstarcat_jewel on May 16th, 2009 04:44 am (UTC)
I can't say anything about Kinko's, but Office Depot once refused to copy one of Russ' sticker catalogs because the images had copyright marks on them. Or at least that's what they said at first; when Russ pointed out that he was the copyright holder, they invented more reasons not to do the job, each one weirder than the last. It became painfully obvious that the real reason was something they couldn't legally say -- that the catalog contained pagan-themed stickers. Eventually we gave up, and have been using Office Max for our copying business ever since. You might give them a try -- they don't give us any shit about copyrights.